Football Feedback
Personal mail and general feedback follow.... this only includes message concerning the scandal (well almost) and basically those sent after Wednesday 16th August. These are in reverse chronological order!
From: Sandy Subject: Footy Hi Wil, Thanks for the www footy page - what we really need is some self respecting lawer type who can take on the money hungry AFL types. It really is bullshit to harrass people who publish public information Keep it up - PS can you publish that Geelong won the GF or is that fantasy? Sandy gasp@ne.com.au
From: Ian Witt
Subject: A Newcomer's Perspective
Hi Wil,
I am brand new to the Internet but not Australian
Rules Football. I played the game on & off for 25 years and
hold a current level 2 coaching certificate. I live in
Sydney and like many others in this city am starved for
information on our favourite code of football. If the AFL
is trying to alienate all it's fans in Non Aussie Rules
states it is succeeding in all respects. I do not know how
much support you have received from people in this state,
but if this information was widely known I am sure that
all true supporters of the code here would be totally
disgusted in the AFL's performance. I think your page is an
absolutely brilliant idea and am looking forward to the
extra information I will be able to obtain from it in 1996.
Your's in the greatest game of all;
Ian Witt.
P.S. My address is jorusroc@real.com.au
From: Brad
Subject: AFL Scandal
Hi Wil,
Legal action by the AFL is unbelievable. They are trying to promote
the sport internationally. Pages such as these are a method of informing the
world of the happenings in AFL.
Mail address
bc5bje@fs2.ballarat.edu.au
From: Noddy
Subject: AFL Scandal
Hi Wil,
Best of luck in your struggle against the evil corporate forces
who seem to think that they own information. I'm an American
who has very few ways of following footy off the Web, so I certainly
hope that your site stays up and contains as much news as
possible.
Sarah.
sak10@columbia.edu
From: jason
Subject: afl saga
Hi Wil,
onya mate for doing the aussie rules thing. If the
AFL is so upset at what you are doing, why don't they do
something of their own about the greaest game on earth. Us
Aussies overseas are crying out for info on the game and
the AFL gives us jack.
Once again mate, a job well done.
jason mccormack
email: jmccorma@rohan.sdsu.edu
From: Noddy Subject: AFL Scandal and more Hi Wil, Congratulations on a great page. Good on you for standing up to hypocrasy. You may consider an on-line petition to support your stand. Keep up the fine work. John Olle olle@redgum.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au
From: Doug Sproal Subject: Aussie Rules Footy Farce Hi Wil, If they don't want us folks over here in America to get the hottest info on Australian Rules Football off you guys, why the hell do they waste their time and energy and other people's money catering a tv segment for the US market. seems to me like the characters heading up the AFL need to understand some very basic rules of marketing - like if they are happy with giving us 7 -10 day old information on their sport, we'll soon discover the excellent game of rugby league from the Sydney area if more current, more interested in us the people who see the game, etc. etc. Personally, if you are not supported by the AFL next year I mean (they should pay you big bucks to help promote! Then, why the hell would you (or anybody else in the world or on the Internet)help those who can't help themselves. You're doing a great job, I hope they see the value before they upset you. Good luck - hope it all works out! Bye.
From: "The Swan" Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Well, isn't it just like the AFL to bite off their nose to spite their face?? You would think if they had a clue they would ENCOURAGE this kind of promotion but they persist with their dictatorship. Somtimes I wonder if Ross da Boss knows what he's doing. Tell 'em from me that football should be a game, not a friggin business. The Swan (swan@suburbia.net)
From: kenny Subject: oakley's a dickbrain Hi Wil, What the fuck is the AFL's problem. At a time when most sports are struggling to stay alive, the AFL basically tell everyone to get fucked. It's just plain stupid, and it won't be long before murdoch takes over AFL too, and screws it for all it's worth. Are there any other despondent hawthorn fans out there?**sob**
From: Gareth Lewis Subject: Something I Noticed Hi Wil, as an addendum to your impressive story of the Evil Empire, I recently purchased a biographical book written by Charlie McAdam whom I workjed with in Alice Springs and who is the father of the famous AFL trio of Gilbert, Adrian and Greg. Looking at the book there aresmall pictures of Adrian and in their St Kilda and North jumpers but both have their AFL logos edited out. Inside the book only pictures of Charlie's sons in training jumpers or in their Central Australian Football League guernseys are included. No doubt the AFL made it clear to the publishers not to use the logo therefore potentially depriving the book of some great pictures for the book.After all the book is about a family and amongst other things a great contribution to footy. This, like the AFL's delicate treatment of your WWW page, is probably one amongstmany similar stories. All the best with the page, glewis@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au
From: Slappy Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Mate, It is typical of the AFL to only think of themselves, and that unlike themselves, not everyone does something for money, but the good of the game. Just look at the so called brawling rule..anything for money. It is a shame that they don't realise that many people just can't get info on their team whether they are interstate, or overseas. Keep doing as much as you can, and maybe over the break you can work out an agreement with them. Maybe get you to do the official page. Maybe they should also look at overseas league, like the English Soccer, and NFL football. They all have web pages, both official and unofficial. Anyway I have said enough.. Slappy. cgking@echidna.cowan.edu.au
From: Edward Wedler, Canada Subject: AFL should have PAID Dag, not PUNISHED him. Dag's footy page did more to promote the AFL around the world than anything the AFL has done so far. The AFL has punished their biggest worldwide promoter. I think, instead Dag should be PAID for what he did. I have a question. Did the AFL ever approach the website to offer support and money to continue and improve upon the service? Last comment...i will likely watch the premiership game live, but will turn away whenever a sponsor advertises their product. I encourage all footy supporters make a list of the sponsors during the game and write to every bloody one of them. DAG RULES!> Fair enough I guess!
From: Kelli Munro, kbmunro@aol.com Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Just checked in with yours and Daryl's pages only to be once again amazed at the ignorance of the AFL and its lawyers. I am an American who lived in Melourne in 1986 and 1987. I am married to an Australian and we now live in Seattle. I have been involved with professional sporting events marketing for 5 years and have a number of friends who work for the Seattle Sonics. I was always amazed at how unprofessional Australia's most professional sport was. I can only assume that since the AFL has
From: Paul Stanton Subject: Re Letter From AFL Hi Wil, I read the letter you were sent by the AFL and I agree with you.Having lived in melbourne myself and been a great fan of aussie rules. It is very hard here in New Zealand to get results or to even see the weekly highlights. Currently we ge 1 hours of highlights on tuseday night on sky tv which costs me $50.00 per month.We are also graced with the grand final Live. That is all the coverage we get. I rang sky tv after reading your letter and I asked them why we do not get more coverage.There reply was the AFL charges too much money for the rights to show football matches and more extensive highlights. This is why I agree with you.When the AFL turn around and say they want to promote the game,yet they won't let you do the same thing. Keep plugging along mate, as I am sure there are other people in new zealandand and around the world who look forward to seeig and catching up with aussie rules on internet. Regards Paul Stanton (NZ)
From: Chris McAuliffe@Fine Arts@Unimelb.edu.au Subject: Previous copyright actions by the AFL Hi Wil, further to the ongoing saga of the AFL's attack on football Web sites you might be interested in a similar affair which took place in 1994. An Adelaide-based artists, Darren McRae produced paintings of players such as Peter Daicos and Tony Modra. He then printed and sold posters based on these paintings. The AFL threatened legal action on the grounds that the paintings incorporated their logo, thus breaching copyright, implying AFL endorsement etc. the artists had in fact incorporated the logo simply by dint of the fact that he was a realist artist; that is, the logo appears on the seam of a player's shorts, or on a hoarding in the background. I've no intention of getting into the legal machinations of all of this but I offer it as evidence of a certain mania on the AFL's part. McRae was obviously making money from his paintings, but I don't think he deliberately sought to capitalise on the logo; it does not feature prominently in any of the paintings. The AFL's reply---that he could paint the player s in the pajamas if he wanted, so long as he didn't use the logo---speaks more of a desire to monopolise the depiction of footballers than to protect their trademark. It's worth remembering also that many corporate logos have been used by Pop artists without complaint from their owners. Campbells soups never sued Andy Warhol (not did Pepsi, Brillo or any of the others he lifted). In those instances the company rightly recognised that it was in their general interest to be circulated in a domain not usually affiliated with their product (eg. the art scene). Likewsie, while I'm no legal expert, I think it could be argued that a painting of a logo---especially a logo forming a minute part of a painting of a footballer---is an intepretation, not a mechanical reproduction. The circumstances of this case were obviously a little different to those of the Web sites, however it seems to me that in both cases the issue is the assertion of power rather than of copyright. Having lived in the US and suffered football dep rivation, I fully support your contention that Web sites promote the game and provide a service to fans. The dearth of any regular information on footy in the US makes an absolute mockery of AFL dreams of an international competition. From: Chris McAuliffe@Fine Arts@Unimelb.edu.au Subject: Giant Monster Footy Show Hi Wil, the following may be of interest to you and all readers of footy sites. GIANT MONSTER FOOTY SHOW. Opening Friday September 8th, and current until October 1st Exhibition of art works about football, on the theme of the Holy Trinity (Ablett, Lockett, Dunstall) At the Artists Garden, 390 Brunswick St, Fitzroy This is the third annual show and past exhibitions have featured great works, including a sculpture of Tony Lockett as a blimp, a portrait of Damien Monkhorst as a monkey, and one of Sam newm (replete with matching white boots and handbag).> After this message I added a quick link to my page to this announcement.
From: Peter Dale Subject: AFL scandalHi Wil, I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but I would like to add my few words to the feedback on the run-in with the AFL. Basically, I love the game but am from London. I can get to see scores, etc. here, but there's just no way to get fixtures, etc. The stuff on Internet was really useful, and I think it is crazy the way the League reacted. Good work on your part anyway. Since I can't see the fixtures, I can't work out how the finals work out. It's weird, but back in the good old days of 5 teams, woth the complicated Qualifying Final, Elimination Final, etc. I knew exactly how it worked. Now I don't. Can you tell me the line up (and if you can't name teams just say 1v8, 2v7, etc.) All the best to you, anyway, Peter Dale (peter.dale@bl.uk)
From: Doug McEwan Subject: Australian Rules ResultsHi Wil,from an Australian who lives in Canada, YOU are the only location that gives up to date results I don't see the AFL with all their paid staff doing any favors for the Australians who happen to live overseas and still follow the football. Keep up the good work and maybe the AFL in all their wisdom, will understand the problems for overseas patriots getting information and let you continue doing a great job. From a person who has been away from Aust. for 20 years, the revisions that the AFL has done to the VFL leave a lot to desired.
From: Barry Mc Innes Subject: Sorted Out Hi Wil, I hope everthing is clear to keep the Footy sites in with all the AFL copyright stuff. I was lucky I had an approved fixture sent to me before Round 1. Don't let the lawyers (replace Bastards) stop the info flow. regards barry.
From: shaun Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Seing you can't produce fixtures with the names of the clubs. Is it at all possible that you can use their nick names eg the blues, pies and eagles as these names are not exclusive property of the AFL and many teams in local competitions use them eg I play for the diamond creek demons. Or just tell the AFL to get stuffed. s9506853@otto.bf.rmit.edu.au
From: Geoff Lamb Subject: Me tool Hi Wil, I too got the exact same letter (with a different name at the top :-) I set up the original web page at CSIRO DMT when I was working there. I got the letter months after leaving the job at CSIRO. I rang the law firm and the guy dealing with all this was actually a guy I used to play footy with at Melbourne Uni. He had not actually seen any of the pages or did not realy know what the internet was all about but was concerned about copyright infingement, which is quite legitimate with things like the AFL Logo wich I scanned in off an AFL approved mouse mat :-) The stuff about the fixtures is going a bit too far though. I sent off my letter signing my life away and then got another one asking if I knew anyone else who would be breaking copyright laws (which I have not sent off.) It was VERY disterbing getting a letter like that. They had not done any homework to find me as they sent it to CSIRO corporate headquarters originally, who then passed it on to the branch I used to work at who then had to forward it to me. So I ended up getting the nasty letter the night before the cut off date! Keep up the good work. GeoffNo comment!!
From: Russell Nordeen Subject: Aussie Rules in U.S. Hi Wil, I just wanted to offer my thoughts on the AFL crack down on the internet. Seems to me there are more serious matters to tend to. I've enjoyed your news and Darryl's news as well and just wanted to offer my thanks. I'm a native Californian but I studied at Monash for my PhD and became a Bomber fan. Actually I as in Oz to witness the 2 Bomber premierships in the 80s. I'm lookin to get in touch with others in the US intereste in an amateur footy league. I've still got my Sherrin safely tucked away. No bloody one to have a kick with on Friday arvo, worse still not a pub in sight. I'm teachin at a college in southeast Arkansas which should pretty much explains things. Anyway thanks for all the footy goods and tell bloody Ross Oakley he's a wanker! return address nordeen@uamont.edu
From: Ewster Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Just wanted to find out the latest regarding the AFL's shittyway of dealing with the issue of fixtures on the web. I havent been checking the news group for a couple of weeks and was wondering if anything was resolved? I assume from the data available from your page that the AFL are still playing Big Brother. Have you at any stage initiated a drive to get people to fax the AFL and register complaints? I for one would love to clog their fax machine on a daily basis and let them know how many people they pissed off. I feel very angry about the issue, not only because Dags is a great guy doing a great service for footy fans and this fixture thing is silly, but the AFL administer the game, they dont own it! It belongs to the people. ewen@matahari.tamu.edu, http://matahari.tamu.edu/ewen
From: Karen Subject: Hello! Hi Wil, You can tell them from me that your page is my lifeline to AFL. It's been a real struggle to keep up from NYC over the past 8 years but i have made the effort. I've even subscribed to Football Australia, but nothing comes close to your AFL page US fans (pardon the pun) get 1 hour of highlights a week, that's it! The AFL should have their legal people working out satellite transmitions to the US of whole games and the whole season. (they start us around game 6, and forget the Foster Cup) We do get the whole grand finale, which is the only chance one has to really follow the game. The scores are not printed anywhere. You should provide the AFL with your hit statistics from the US. I wasn't surprised to see it at #2 only after Australia! Before i go on forever, thanks again, Karen
From: Rob Skingsley Subject: The Bloody AFL Hi Wil, Just a question - why can't you display the fixtures list but the Newspapers can. As far as I know they have nothing to do with the AFL. Keep sticking it up the bastards is what I say. Rob (rskingsl@esoc-gw.esoc.esa.de)
Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Keep up the good work. Only way to get decent info in Sydney, including the ladder. David Sneddon
From: Tyler Bourke Subject: Go to current round Hi Wil, Just wanted to mention that your go to current round button sends you to round 1. BTW, great page, keep up the good work TylerThat's because the current round - i.e. this weeks fixtures don't exist. They have been removed due to legal reasons!!
From: Steve Kirkby Subject: unbelievable!! Hi Wil, Thanks for putting the scores back on line.... it was traumatic not having access to them. As for the AFL.. I love the use of the words "Intellectual Property"... .. logo's and programs can be SOOOO mind boggling!! Keep up the excellent work!! Steve
From: Matt Chalwell Subject: AFL spy address Hi Wil, Just wanted to know if you have the address site the AFL is using to access our pages. I know it is quite difficult to figure out, but if you happen to come accross it can you let me know, as I would very much enjoy denying them access to my server. I did get one of those letters also. Matt
From: Scott Balson Subject: ABC breakfast show Hi Wil, The Global Heros section has updated and now prompts Australia to listen to the ABC Breakfast show on Monday. I will be among those listening. Good on 'ya mate. Global Web Builders Scott Balson Web Master PS We caught you at your PC - you're now more than text...
That's an Indy - not a PC .... an Silicon Graphics machine which would kick arse over any PC!! Whatever.
Subject: current scores and dates played Hi Wil, spy to I find out the dates games are played and the scores.
From: Kevin Lentin Subject: AFL Page Feedback Hi Wil, I was just reading Dag's footy home page (to which you have a link a and I suggest you have a read of his 'Something's Missing' link. Seemd the AFL have started throwing legal action around for people who use their logo etc. The most ridiculous thing about this though is that the AFL retain the rights to the draw and the results and it is illegal to publish who has or will play each other during a season. I supopse we have to guess where to go watch football on the weekend. NUTS I just thought that if you didn't know then you might be interested in knowing all this. You may choose to remove stuff or leave it there there or wait until the AFL come to you (unless you are paying them license fees already in which case ignore me. You might also be interested in calling the AFL and venting youranger (should you have any :-) I think I might - or maybe even call Mr Oakleigh on 3AW during the week. Just thought I'd drop you that note, great page BTW, Kevin.
From: paul gerrans Subject: football on US TV Hi Wil, Have been using your page as a lifelink to what is happening in the footy. I am in the US until next January working at Susquehanna University in Pennsylvania. Do you know of any specific sites which can give info on footy on television over here. I know Sport's Channel has a show but my cable provider company doesn't carry it. If you have any infomation I'd be grateful. Thanks Paul Gerrans gerrans@einstein.susqu.edu P.S. Watch out for the mighty Eagles!
From: John Harrell (johno@iglou.com)
Subject: Aussie Rules in the U.S.
Hi Wil,
Love the site. It's a great way to generate lots of stats that clutter up
my study and make life a living hell for my neat-freak wife, who doesn't
consider you an ally at the moment.
Anyway, the reason I'm e-mailing you is that I saw your hit list and
noticed the tremendous amount of hits you've gotten from the U.S. That's
amazing to me, especially since TV coverage of footy up here is lame, at best.
The numbers are encouraging to me because I'm interested in starting a
U.S. footy league. I've sent out some postings on the newsgroup. The response
has been positive and I think we're going to be able to do it. What I was
wondering is whether you've been in direct contact with many U.S. footy fans
and am wondering if you can help me get in touch with them.
Any help you can give me would be terrific. Just e-mail at
johno@iglou.com
Thanks
John Harrell
From: Scott Balson Subject: AFL Scandal Hi Wil, Well done mate, You have just made the global hero list... check out http://gwb.com.au/gwb/ in the next hour (ie EST 6:30pm)
Check it out ....
From: Sharan
Subject: AFL getting shirty
Hi Wil,
Firstly I'd like to say that it's a great footy page
that you're running and I access it every week after the
games. Good stuff!
I'd be interested to know what the press has been
saying over the last few days regarding yours and Dags footy
pages. If you have time, could you possibly put any media
articles on your page?
I've written to the AFL pointing out the importance
of the Internet from the viewpoint of an overseas fan, and
sent copies to the Age and Herald Sun.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Sharan